On the topic of TCM again, many people tend to assume that the herbs used in chinese medicine, of which many are plants, are safe. Many tend to associate natural products as safe and that man-made chemicals are always bad. Nothing can be further away from the truth. The only way to know if these herbs are safe is to test them. Some may think that since many others have taken these herbs previously, the safety of these herbs should be apparent. However, I would like to quote Dr Ng Eng Hen "The relationship is not so simple".
Acacia georgineae
Gastrolobium
Lolium perenne
Veratrum californicum
Cyclopia
There are many reasons why toxicity associated with plants often escape, well, association with the plant. For example, the effects of toxicity may be cumulative and only show up after prolonged usage of the causative agent. Or the effects are delayed, resulting in clinical signs showing up after many months have passed. Or it can be that the timing of the exposure plays an important role. It could also be that the toxic agents originate from parasites infecting the plant in question, so the plant will be toxin free most of the time but not all the time. With all these factors coming into play, it is very difficult to link toxicity to the causative agent.
So what are some examples of poisonous plants and the effects they cause?
Nerium oleanderSo what are some examples of poisonous plants and the effects they cause?
This plant here is deadly. Chewing on just one leave can kill you.
Acacia georgineae
This tree here is deadly too. It produces fluoroacetate which shuts down the metabolic pathways in your body (TCA cycle), killing you in the process.
Gastrolobium
This pretty looking plant produces fluroacetate too.
Lolium perenne
This plant alone is non-toxic. However when it is infected by the fungus Neotyphodium lolii, the fungus produces toxins like ergovaline (causes hyperthermia syndrome and gangrene of your limbs) or other toxins that cause diarrhoea in animals at least.
Veratrum californicum
This plants here is amazing. The classic example of how the timing of ingestion affects the outcome. If ingested by a pregnant sheep at day 14 of pregnancy, this is what you get
Cyclopia
Yes. Cyclops do exist. By extrapolating this onto humans, you might get this
Not that I'm trying to scare you. But the fact is that drugs used in "western" medicine are all tested for safety and efficacy. It is a legal requirement. TCM herbs on the other hand...... well let's just say I have not been able to find data on safety and efficacy for most of those herbs. Given the difficulty in associating the clinical signs of toxicity with the herbs, and the fact that alot of chinese herbs are not tested for safety let alone efficacy, I would say it's better to stick with your "western" doctor. At least "western" drugs have been tested rigorously on lab mice, rabbits and Guinea pigs as well as humans, so that we know how safe and efficacious they are. Furthermore, you can sue your doctor if he gave you a sugar pill instead of anti-neoplastic drugs (for treating cancer) to treat your cancer. As previously pointed out by Angrydr here and here, it's hard to sue a geomancer or a priest conducting exorcisms since fengshui and ghosts are not proven to exist you can't say that they are negligent. Cancer treatment with TCM is not supported by any research studies. So how would you know if your TCM practitioner gave you the "correct" treament? Let's leave the toxic herbs out of the equation first. Can you even sue your TCM practitioner for giving you a sugar pill in the first place? "Western" doctors will be in a legal fix if they did that.
Given the prevalance of poisonous herbs (no real suprise since plants evolve defence mehanisms to protect themselves), the diffculting in establishing a link with toxicity and causative agent and the lack of data on safety as well as efficacy it would be unwise to turn to TCM.
So why are there so many people who swear by TCM?
1) Dead patients can't tell you that TCM didn't work for them.
2) Group think (mutual influence in a group of people)
3) The placebo effect
4) Many diseases are self limiting, giving the illusion of a cure
5) Concurrent "western" medical treatment that was actually doing the good work, also giving the illusion of cure by TCM
31 comments:
i have learnt something here..thanks..but still as to why so many people look towards tcm despite not knowing what in the medicine, because they needed hope which they couldn't find in western medicine-LH
Hi there LH, in some cases, the patient might be in a no lose situation since western medicine can't help them. I've got no objection with this. There problem is that there are some who make unsubstantiated claims ie. treating cancer.
Hi, imbs, you don't think tcm can treat cancer or you don;t think tcm can complement cancer treatment (by western medicine)-LH
Hi LH,
I doubt TCM can treat cancer. The reason for this is because cancer is a very complex disease with many factors contributing to the development of it. In fact, cancer cells even develop resistance to drugs sometimes, somewhat similar to bacteria developing resistence but rather different in terms of mechanisms invloved. Therefore, even if a TCM treatment for cancer works initially, it may cease to work later on. How would a TCM practioneer adapt the treatment plan for his patient then?
As such if someone were to tell me that by taking some herbs prescribed by a chinese physician who practises medicine based on an ancient philosophy and has no good idea on what excatly is cancer, I would find it hard to believe. On top of that, there's no experimental evidence that suggests that it works. How am I suppose to believe that cancer treatment for TCM works?
If they were to do studies that confirm the efficacy for TCM cancer treatments, I would of course change my mind. If TCM were based on science and not a philosophy ying and yang and meridians, I might be a little more inclined to place more trust in TCM. But TCM isn't really science is it? There's only one way of knowing things and that is science.
"There's only one way of knowing things and that is science."
Now you're just like the preacher next door telling me what my only path to salvation is.
The question I pose to you is: What is science? Regardless, science, in its broadest sense, is any systematic knowledge or practice. In its more usual restricted sense, science is a system of acquiring knowledge based on the scientific method, as well as to the organized body of knowledge gained through such research (Wikipedia).
You claim that TCM is not science, but based purely on philosophies. I seek to correct you. The history of TCM goes far back for a few thousand years before Christ. Has TCM been just pure talking and discussion of philosophies through these countless number of generations? (This is a rhetoric, I dont expect you to say yes) Of course not. It has been practiced on the general masses on a large-scale basis, up until Western influence came in. The very fact that it is still surviving today is evidence to its empirical nature. The observations are made to fit the philosophies, based on what has worked and what hasn't through the years. If it was purely based on a philosophy as you said, and people were given herbs at random with no 'science' behind it, it would not be what it is today: A long-lived traditional method.
Back to the topic on science, the scientific method has been said to be the very backbone of this discipline. We have all learned about the scientific method at some point in our life as a student, and to put it simply, it involves the formulation of a hypothesis, followed by experimentations, and observations are made which would confirm or disprove the hypothesis. As mentioned earlier, TCM IS empirical in nature. The herbs that are prescribed are those that have been working for thousands of years. Although you may not believe in the philosophies behind it, it is still valid in the sense that they are supported through experimentations and observations. Doesnt this make TCM science? Or have you been taught that science is the antonym of tradition?
In your blog post, you listed some examples of poisonous plants and even accompanied them with some beautiful pictures. It's nice, but proves only one point: There are plants that are toxic to humans. Of course there are, my dear. In case, you didnt know there are drugs that are toxic to humans too. My point is that these plants are not even vaguely related to TCM at all. Nerium oleander is an ornamental plant. Acacia georginae is native to Australia and has been introduced to the US too. But China (or any area native to Chinese for that matter of fact)? I doubt so. Gastrolobium is also native only to Australia. Now, are you implying that TCM is the practice of picking leaves of plants along roads or any pretty vegetation that you like, doing some hocus pocus and saying that the ingestion of them will cure diseases? Well then, you are certainly a misinformed fool. On the contrary, let me list down some toxic substances that are actually used in Western medication.
Irinotecan, also known by the brand name Camptosar, has been the most useful drug against advanced colorectal cancer in years. However, in the latest studies sponsored by the National Cancer Institute, almost three times as many patients died taking the standard drug combination involving irinotecan as those taking other drug combinations, NewsEdge reports. Some of the dead patients had blood clots, blood poisoning, dehydrating diarrhea or a drop in the number of white blood cells. (http://www.annieappleseedproject.org/toxcandrugca.html)
"Almost every patient treated with IL2 (conventional cancer treatment) suffered fever, malaise, nausea or vomiting, diarrhoea, sharp drops in blood pressure, skin rashes, breathing difficulties, liver abnormalities and irregularities in blood chemistry. Rosenberg himself details a number of horrifying case histories, and one in particular where the administration of IL2 had precipitated amongst other things, vomiting, swollen joints, lung fluid and 'vascular leak syndrome' where blood would ooze through the vessel walls and collect under the skin. (IL2 is still in use today.)": Steven Rosenberg, The Transformed Cell, Putnam Press, New York, 1992
This is only regarding cancer treatment. If you are really interested to find out more, Google is your friend =). (No, I'm not paid for advertising. I should be though)
So, let me give you 5 reasons why so many people swear by 'Western' medicine.
1)Dead patients can't tell you that Western treatment didn't work for them.
2)Group think (mutual influence in a group of people)
3)The placebo effect
4)Many diseases are self limiting, giving the illusion of a cure
5)There's only one way of knowing things and that is science. 'Western' medicine is based on science. Others are just a load of bullcrap. Therefore 'Western' medicine is good.
To wrap it all up, I have to say that I am utterly shocked and absolutely infuriated to see my fellow countryman base an argument on misplaced facts and baseless assumptions. Please read up on the topic before you say (or type for that matter) anything. You are giving a bad name to us Singaporeans.
I had terrible pain in my knees and went for accupuncure. Two treatments were all I needed before I was bouncing here there and everywhere again...Took some herbal medicine too. That didn't kill me. Thank god for TCM.
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I always thought that even natural bad side should have, natural doesn't mean that either the best or most appropriate. Although we often like to try but the grandmother's remedies that the medicines recommended by a doctor!
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what you fail to mention is that ALL western medication is poison to the body. It is all synthetic, we are organic. Do not need to be a rocket scientist to know this. As to the clinical studies about western drugs, let's be honest. With all the disclosure that has been going on, Big Pharma is simply hiring ghost writers to say their drugs are safe. Nothing, I mean NOTHING in western medicine is safe!
In Chinese herbology, what you fail to mention is a Chinese herbologist will not prescribe as a western alternative practitioner. This is the difference between night and day. A western alternative practitioner does not do a differential diagnosis like a Chinese practitioner can, therefore, giving herbs accordingly. And, YES, Chinese medicine can treat cancer. In Europe the protocol is Western and Chinese medicine together.
Foolish, foolish people. This character wants to keep everyone medicated!!! The doping of America. How many people do you know are NOT on a drug? Exactly!
What you fail to mention is that ALL western medication is poison to the body. It is all synthetic, we are organic. Do not need to be a rocket scientist to know this. As to the clinical studies about western drugs, let's be honest. With all the disclosure that has been going on, Big Pharma is simply hiring ghost writers to say their drugs are safe. Nothing, I mean NOTHING in western medicine is safe!
In Chinese herbology, what you fail to mention is a Chinese herbologist will not prescribe as a western alternative practitioner. This is the difference between night and day. A western alternative practitioner does not do a differential diagnosis like a Chinese practitioner can, therefore, giving herbs accordingly. And, YES, Chinese medicine can treat cancer. In Europe the protocol is Western and Chinese medicine together.
Foolish, foolish people. This character wants to keep everyone medicated!!! The doping of America. How many people do you know are NOT on a drug? Exactly!
what you fail to mention is that ALL western medication is poison to the body. It is all synthetic, we are organic. Do not need to be a rocket scientist to know this. As to the clinical studies about western drugs, let's be honest. With all the disclosure that has been going on, Big Pharma is simply hiring ghost writers to say their drugs are safe. Nothing, I mean NOTHING in western medicine is safe!
In Chinese herbology, what you fail to mention is a Chinese herbologist will not prescribe as a western alternative practitioner. This is the difference between night and day. A western alternative practitioner does not do a differential diagnosis like a Chinese practitioner can, therefore, giving herbs accordingly. And, YES, Chinese medicine can treat cancer. In Europe the protocol is Western and Chinese medicine together.
Foolish, foolish people. This character wants to keep everyone medicated!!! The doping of America. How many people do you know are NOT on a drug? Exactly!
what you fail to mention is that ALL western medication is poison to the body. It is all synthetic, we are organic. Do not need to be a rocket scientist to know this. As to the clinical studies about western drugs, let's be honest. With all the disclosure that has been going on, Big Pharma is simply hiring ghost writers to say their drugs are safe. Nothing, I mean NOTHING in western medicine is safe!
In Chinese herbology, what you fail to mention is a Chinese herbologist will not prescribe as a western alternative practitioner. This is the difference between night and day. A western alternative practitioner does not do a differential diagnosis like a Chinese practitioner can, therefore, giving herbs accordingly. And, YES, Chinese medicine can treat cancer. In Europe the protocol is Western and Chinese medicine together.
Foolish, foolish people. This character wants to keep everyone medicated!!! The doping of America. How many people do you know are NOT on a drug? Exactly!
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um, we don't use any of those "poisonous" plants listed above in our medicinary for chinese medicine. we also restrict was herbs we give to women who are or planning on becoming pregnant. (mainly to stave off miscarriages) but we also use herbs to stop miscarriage. this was not written by someone with a master's in chinese medicine (which you have to have to practice in most of the US) and is obviously not familiar with western herbalism either.
um, we don't use any of those "poisonous" plants listed above in our medicinary for chinese medicine. we also restrict was herbs we give to women who are or planning on becoming pregnant. (mainly to stave off miscarriages) but we also use herbs to stop miscarriage. this was not written by someone with a master's in chinese medicine (which you have to have to practice in most of the US) and is obviously not familiar with western herbalism either.
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